Jody, thanks for the info this is a multi stage project for a local machine shop i had to tack weld these two split rings together on the inside so they could be chucked up on a four jaw lathe for further machining so that weld will be machined off when they turn the part too the inside spec when they get all that done i have to weld two blocks on the outside of each half .0240 from the end w/ a 3/16 bead! should be interesting. i ended up using a 75% he 25% argon mix and 2% thoriated tungsten 3/32 didnt have much luck with the ceriated with that much heat i may have had the gas wrong i donno but the final welds on these parts have to be run through every test imaginable so i'd better get my stuff strait. . thanks again for your help and quick reply.